I remember a while back you were looking for more team members.

Apr 26, 2009 at 8:50 AM
I found myself making a few changes in the scene editor and remembered back when you posted on the XNA forums about wanting team members. Now that I seem to have enough of a hold on this system to be making edits I guess that means I'm going to use it for my game. (I'm creating a some controls in the system that use the asdw keys for movement in the same way as the arrow keys work, but I'm making W and S work slightly different than your up down to make it work the same as most other popular editors)

So if you still needed help I'd be willing. But I would also want you to understand that I'm also going to be working on my game as well, but hopefully since they are bound to each other that doesn't create an obstacle to me working on the project.

Just a few things about myself.

I'm a professional Java Developer have been working in the field for a tiny bit more than one year. I feel that I've really learned what it takes to work on a larger project and understand what makes clean and efficient code.

I've been developing mods for Warcraft 3 for a good number of years(4?) and have a passion for creating games of all types, I'm actually creating a table top role playing game at the moment as well(I play a smaller role in this, So it's not a great deal of my time).

Thanks for considering me.
Apr 26, 2009 at 9:21 AM
Sure, that sounds great! I'll work on setting you up ASAP!

Ironically, I spend a little time yesterday implementing the exact thing with the WASD keys that you're talking about :) Go ahead an update to see if that's what you were looking for :)
Apr 27, 2009 at 12:24 AM
Edited Apr 27, 2009 at 2:03 AM
Yes that seems about right.
*Edit* Oops I updating incorrectly(I'm use to eclipse still a little new to Tortoise) I had a bit of a difference in that D and A worked the same way they would in an FPS. (Basically A and D did the same thing as left and right, and W and S did the same thing as Insert and Delete). Let me know your opinion on this matter please(Not that I think all editors should work like an FPS but I do think they had a reason for making their control scheme the way they did)*End Edit*

But I also have another difference, In that I made the behavior of the middle mouse button and the CTRL key oppisate. So now it does a lookAt when you are not holding ctrl and replaced the behavior of when you are holding ctrl with the previous behavior not holding ctrl.(I switch the .NONE and the Control behavior)

I won't commit this(When I'm enabled to commit) unless you agree with me. But it seems the default behavior of the keys should be different from the default behavior of the mouse(So they work in harmoniously together instead of just doing the same thing as the other as a default) Plus it makes it more like an FPS fly camera as default.

Just let me know what you think of that idea too.
Apr 27, 2009 at 2:25 AM
I'll take this into consideration with the guy who does the level editing for our game.

Apr 27, 2009 at 2:29 AM
Edited Apr 27, 2009 at 2:30 AM
I've been thinking about it and my final thought would be this.

WSAD would do the same as an FPS

QE would be like what you have AD doing now.

and RF would do the same as Up and Down.

And I have no opinion changes on the mouse operation.

This would give a high level of control to your left hand, And I think it would feel rather intuitive.

I'll try not to push on this subject too much any further. Please let me know what you think.
Apr 27, 2009 at 2:42 AM
I like RF being up / down. WASD as a pure FPS would be problematic since the mouse is not playing a part. Usually, an FPS relies on the mouse for turning. This is why WASD currently uses a modified Goldeneye 007 version of FPS controls. So if we kept WASDQA the same, but added RF, then I think that might be a reasonable compromise.

As for the mouse changes, I'd still like to see what my level guy says :)

Apr 27, 2009 at 3:04 AM
I agree with what you say about the keyboard controls in that they depend on the mouse to make sense.

So I guess that means if your level guy likes the mouse changes idea that you like the keyboard changes I mentioned too? In any case it doesn't matter much to me. I wouldn't want to drag this out into some pointless debate.

The only real reason-driven thing I have to say is that I found without having to look at code how to move the map using the mouse and how to use the arrow keys. I didn't find out on my own(until I saw the code) how to change the angle. This left me thinking that the ONLY way I could change my angle of view was to press the FW-B-U-D-L-R buttons. Because I never thought to hold CTRL. In the end that's my only real concern.
Apr 27, 2009 at 3:20 AM
Edited Apr 27, 2009 at 3:22 AM
Ah, so you didn't read the documentation for the editor, then?

From the docs -

The mouse can be used to transform the camera as well. The middle mouse button can be clicked and dragged across the viewport to achieve this. The way the camera is transformed depends on what modifier keys are held down while dragging. They map out as follows –


Drag Type:                               Result                                                                                      

No Modifiers:                           Pan the camera relative to its up and right vectors.

While holding Ctrl:                    Orient the camera around a close object.

While holding Shift:                   Pan the camera relative to its up and forward vectors.

While holding Ctrl + Shift:         Orient the camera freely (AKA, free-look).

While it is a usual case that users don't read documentation before using software, I've decided not to build my controls around it. Instead, I've decided to build them around what is optimal for those who have read the documentation :)
Apr 27, 2009 at 3:22 AM
Heh, the reading of the documentation is in progress but not completed.
Apr 27, 2009 at 3:25 AM
QUOTE - So I guess that means if your level guy likes the mouse changes idea that you like the keyboard changes I mentioned too? In any case it doesn't matter much to me. I wouldn't want to drag this out into some pointless debate.

One doesn't really affect the other. For various reasons, they are to be used separately from one another. Therefore their layouts must be designed independently.
Apr 27, 2009 at 3:26 AM
It all sounds good.